Visit to St Mary’s & St Michael’s Church Olde Stoke, Winchester, Hants UK

St Mary’s and St Michaels Church Olde Stoke

I have been telling my husband of his ancestry for years.. he is interested, but nothing seems to sit with him.  So when I found this information I had to get him to take me and for him to see it for himself.  We were astonished that his son lives in Winchester and we knew nothing of it and for the last four years of travelling from Northern Ireland for family visits, from where we now live,  we have past this 8-10 times alone – without the fact that once my husband did airports for a living and must have passed it 100’s of times, it tickled us imensly!

This Church was for us quite difficult to find!  It is in a very quiet secluded, tiny little place just around Olde Stoke Charity, Winchester!  Because of its location we came across it quite by chance, as it is quite hidden from view from the little lanes around there.  We first took a wrong turn and went the wrong way – we cam back and took a road and saw a vicarage on our right so we pulled in, we knocked but no -one was in – i said to my husband that this was a car park for a church – and it pointed up the road – so we walked a little way and found the gate to the long long long path!

For us in-particular, this was a 1st for an actual genealogy visit and to see first hand a site which once was a thriving place for the De Hampton’s, Waller’s and their Heirs!

Originally in the Grounds was the De Hampton Mansion – and very unfortunately it was in a bad state of repair and was taken down in the C1730. Sir James Phelyppes was the last person to reside in it – and had left it and gone to Ireland where he died in C1690.

Apparently, to the West is man levelled ground which they assume was used for jousting practice! This is to be found in the church booklet.    I found this info about the manor on British History:-

http://www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/hants/vol3/pp447-451

quote:- ”

MANOR

¶It seems probable that the lands which afterwards became Stoke Charity parish were granted as part of the manor of Micheldever to Hyde Abbey by Edward the Elder in 904. (fn. 1) However, it would seem that the Abbey had parted with the land by the time of the Domesday Survey if the ‘Stockes’ held by the bishop of Winchester and entered wrongly under Meon Hundred can be STOKE CHARITY. (fn. 2) Then of the land of the manor a certain Geoffrey held four hides held of him by villeins.

By the thirteenth century the manor had passed into the hands of Henry de Caritate or de la Charité and was held of him by John de Windsor while only scutage was owing to the bishop of Winchester. (fn. 3) John de Windsor before his death in 1284 enfeoffed his son Geoffrey de Windsor of the manor of Stoke Charity (fn. 4) and Geoffrey in right of this enfeoffment made fine of 16 acres of land with appurtenances to Richard de la Rude and Margaret his wife in 1287. (fn. 5) However, the heirship of the manor passed to John de Windsor’s granddaughter Alice, daughter of his eldest son Hugh who had seisin of the same when she came of age in 1297. (fn. 6) Alice married first John de Alneto, who died in 1323, (fn. 7) and secondly John Everard. She seems to have had one son at least and possibly a daughter by her first husband, since in 1330 she conveyed part of the manor to Thomas de Alneto who was evidently her son, and the other part to John de Lutershall and Cecilia his wife, who may have been her daughter, with reversion to Thomas. (fn. 8) In 1333 Thomas de Alneto who was about to sell the manor recovered seisin of the same to ensure all rights against Alice and her second husband John Everard, Stephen son of John de Alneto, who may have been another son of Alice, and John de Lutershall and Cecilia his wife. (fn. 9) In proceedings for this purpose Alice and John Everard stated that on Alice’s death the manor must revert to the nearest in blood to John de Windsor, that is undoubtedly to Thomas de Alneto eldest son of Alice. (fn. 10) During the next year, 1334, Thomas de Alneto sold the manor to John de Hampton who was knight of the shire of Southampton from 1336 to 1344. (fn. 11) He was holding the manor as ‘half a fee in Oldstoke’ in 1346, (fn. 12) but died before October, 1357, (fn. 13) leaving a son and heir Thomas de Hampton who was also knight of the shire of Southampton in 1362 and was sheriff of the county from 1361 to 1365. In 1370 this same Thomas presented to the living of Stoke Charity. (fn. 14) The manor passed on his death before 1384 to his son and heir John de Hampton, also knight of the shire in 1394. In 1384 the manor was said to be held by John son of Thomas de Hampton, of the bishopric of Winchester by the service of two knights’ fees. (fn. 15) An inquisition ad quod damnum, taken in 1392, ensured the right of John de Hampton in the manor of ‘Eldestoke,’ held ‘of the Bishop of Winchester for unknown services,’ against all claims put forward by Hyde Abbey. (fn. 16) This same John seems to have died about 1433 in which year his wife Margaret was assigned dower in his lands in Stafford. (fn. 17) His son and heir John Hampton knight of the shire in 1432, (fn. 18) and esquire of the body to Henry VI in 1454, was in his turn succeeded in the manor by his son Thomas Hampton, but at what date is uncertain. Thomas Hampton died in October, 1483, and was buried in the church of Stoke Charity. “

So we walk down this long path to a gate and the lovely old church, apparently somewhere in this land once stood the manor! :-

My Husband stands at the door and opens it up to reveal a really old, beautiful church. The cold hits you straight away, and the feeling of the church is nice and calm and very peaceful, yet makes you feel strange as you know you are entering history. It is also very very hard to believe that this most of this church was built in and around C1305 It does not feel that old, but it really is! :-

Once inside, the walls are a white in colour, and the floors have beautiful original old tiles. The feeling comes that many a person has walked this place and sat and prayed, and mourned.

We descend the stairs and head for  the De Hampton Tomb, on our way around we were a little disappointed to note that the pew cushions were Hampton and none were Waller, as there is a lot of crests around the church you would have thought they may have chosen to do different varieties of cushions :-

The tomb itself was freezing!  But it was old and really beautiful! Other things too note were an old piece of wall had been cleaned back to reveal ancient medieval paintings, and some beautiful wood in the ceilings as well as some lovely plaster work. A lot had been destroyed in the past renovations of the old Church!

On the floor is a plaque to Richard Waller C1492 whom died 1551, he had inherited the manor on the death of his grand-father John Waller C1460 at the age of 11 in 1526. He married Mary Kingsmill C1499 the daughter of John Kingsmill C1456 and Joan or Jane Gifford C? :-

Returning to the Tomb itself, the top as we all know is the De hampton Tomb with the marriage arms of Waller and Hampton.

What still intrigues me is the way John Waller used his Great Grand fathers marriage arms with Lansdall!  My husband suggests that maybe in those days they could use what they wanted to decorate their tombs.  It is also suggested that this particular part was done 60 years after the death of John.  John had requested that he be buried in the Olde Stoke church before the altar of St Thomas.

This is the arms on the Phelyppes Altar Tomb, Sir Thomas Phelyppes C1590 – C1627, 1st Baronet and he had married Charitie Waller the eldest daughter of William Waller esq, Lord of the Manor of Olde Stoke

Here is a wall Plaque to Lady Charitie

This also helps with our research as it tells us that Lady Charity remarried after the death of Phelyppes. She re married to the Right Honourable William Lord Viscount Ogle. Notice the Boars head above the arms?  Apparently in heraldry this implies Hospitality. This I shall be checking.

 

Thomas Hampton’s tomb has him and his wife and his 6 daughters in brass plates on the top, they also had tow sons who died young. His wife’s head is missing unfortunately, but the work is very detailed.

Again around the edge were the Family crests:-

The De hampton Window glass – and some other beautiful windows

 

The Rectors of the Church and their Patrons

 

Here is a picture of the Rectors of the church notice how old it is C1305 was the 1st one.  Down the list we start to see the Hamptons, wallers and on the other side you can see Phelyppes.  The church is now in the Patronage of the Dean and Chapter of Winchester Cathedral and has been since C1905.

Here is where we left this wonderful church and the tombs.

This all makes me want to know more about this family and from whence they all came.

Phelyppes Family

I have a mystery to solve and that is the one of Sir Thomas Phelppes –  I have no father for him and there is an unmarked tomb within the church of a Phelyppes.  Over history the Phelyppes, Phillpes, family are all over the place in the UK – but the spelling of the name is so different down through the ages. As is the description of their Arms!  Who was this person and what of his Family?

Waller Ancestry

As for my Waller quest! Hopefully from going here and seeing 1st hand the tombs the names and knowing a bit of their history – I may be able to work on through and track the family from here down.  I do know there were family in Southampton as well as links to Fareham, Porchester and also Gosport.  Could it be that this family having lost its lands and heritage through the times, had members who moved towards the coast? Could this also be a link to my husbands Hampshire line?  I have also recently learned that John Waller of Old stoke had a manor on the isle of wight too! As well as several other places in the UK.

 

What still intrigues me is that we lived on the South coast, born and bred, both of us from Portsmouth in Hampshire.  But neither one of us knew about this place or any other thing about the Waller family history and ancestry. Only through my sheer determination have I come thus far and learned about it all.  One day we would like to visit Groombridge and the local areas. We would love to learn more.

My advice would be to go to these places if you can – get the books read them and learn more.  Look at marriages and how estates and lands were gotten hold of and most of all see where it leads you. From this church and its tombs I have proved that our family did hold lands here, yes through marriage, but we did hold them.  It gives us much detail on the people of Old Stoke, and we KNOW Richard was made sheriff and worked these places.  The Crests or Family arms alone are so important to look at, because they tell you an awful lot about marriages.  Do you have unknown people in your trees?  Look at the arms and from here you can find out who they are. It has helped me SO much it is unreal.

This for example will help me solve who the gold arms belong too? There is a common belief in the USA that these arms are also Phelyppes.  They could possibly be another branch, but until I find it I wont know!  Break them down and mark them up – find the crests online and then use them.

Olde Stoke Charity is a gorgeous place – and to think that these lands were once in the hands of the Waller family, quite actually, is beyond belief. However, once they were and history plays an important part in all of us.

My Olde Stoke Charity family tree

old stoke charity   ( CLICK TO OPEN)

If you click the above BLUE and the then click the PDF file that opens it gives the Old Stoke line from my tree.

 

If you click the link below it will bring up the pedigrees for Olde stoke.

https://archive.org/stream/PedigreesFromTheVisitationOfHampshireMadeByThomasBenolt/PedigreesFromTheVisitstionOfHampshire_v64_286pgs#page/n13/mode/2up/search/waller